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| TCU_2U2 |
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 Registered Member #17 Joined: Tue Jul 15 2008, 07:20PMPosts: 123 | Hey dfenswx ... I hope, as all on the board I am sure do, that your tone in postings is a bit "tongue in cheek" ... Believe me ... nothing is worth what you made reference to on an earlier post ... I can only assume that you are fairly new to this field (at least since 2006). We have been though this several times in the past, granted different situations each time, but we do get though it ... - Early 1990's ... begining of ASOS deployment - Mid 1990's ... NWS cancelling contracts / FAA picking up many of them - 2001 ... contracts leaving regional oversight and being "bundled" at headquarters - 2006 ... survey's sent concerning ATC taking over observing duties (heard this before?) - 2010 ... today's issues I guess it comes with the territory ... seems we will always have to fight and prove our worth in a field that has been on the brink a few times in the past ... but when push comes to shove, our input as observers into the "POS" ... aka ... ASOS will continue to prove to the end users and congress that safety shall not be compromised for a few nickels ... The same safety issues hold firm today as they did back then. The improvements on ASOS have not improved on the safety issues, at least not enough to be stand alone, or get the "once over" ... aka ... C level by the already busy controller. Keep your comments coming, but please cool it with the death talk ... that is just plain silly ... | ||
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| hlsto2 |
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 Registered Member #2 Joined: Sat Jul 05 2008, 05:36AMPosts: 324 | Ok...for all you that have WSOH #7. page 2-1 lists the service level requirements. note that under REMARKS (10) Significant Cloud Types (A). page 2-8 j goes on to describe in detail the reporting of significant cloud types. Granted this manual I have is dated 7/96 but to my knowledge the FAA service level requirements have not changed. I think when this was transposed into 7900 the all important word "significant" was left off...and so the "cloud types" listed in the service level requirements in 7900 page D-3 might have lead to some confusion. | ||
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| hlsto2 |
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| Registered Member #2 Joined: Sat Jul 05 2008, 05:36AMPosts: 324 | ok...I have checked the 69 service level A sites (as of 5/3/09) and found THREE that enter the 8/ClCmCh group. all three are in ohio and all three are with the same contractor. now...this contractor has other level A sites that are not entering this group. | ||
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| arcticman |
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 Registered Member #58 Joined: Fri Jan 16 2009, 02:04PMPosts: 37 | In my book, this site classification stuff is bogus anyway...per the end user agreements...if you had a NWS WSO/WSFO at your location, and it moved and consolidated during the alledged modernization...and and ASOS was left behind at the airport...you are supposed to do equal work that the WX office did prior to moving...remember no degrading of services....so therefore all WX offices in essence did "A" service work back in the SAO days, so therefore to maintain it for no degrading of services you must do "A" work at whatever site you are located... | ||
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| TCU_2U2 |
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| Registered Member #17 Joined: Tue Jul 15 2008, 07:20PMPosts: 123 | Before we begin ... I want to add that I agree with many here that the 7900 is very poorly written and many conflicts occur within the manual itself ... hopefully 7900.5C will clear things up. This is all from the 7900.5B ... As I assume we all are under the FAA contract, so will start with: 1-8-b. ... reads in part: b. Conflicting Information. In case of conflicting information, the procedures and practices in this order take precedence. And this for later on: c. Terminology. Throughout this order, the following terminology applies: (1) “Shall” indicates a procedure or practice which is mandatory at all applicable facilities. Now, into the book ...first off ... "within the body of the observation" ... ie ... up to altimeter. I bring this up since there are two entries here for comparision ... RVR & Sky Condition Group - Section 15-13 ... under RVR ... it reads in part: a. At designated stations, RVR shall be coded in the format ... etc - Section 15-15.i ... under Sky Condition Group ... it reads: i. Observers shall identify cumulonimbus or towering cumulus by appending cumulonimbus (CB) or towering cumulus (TCU), respectively, to the layer report. So in short ... RVR can be reported within the body of the observation at some sites (A and some B's - pending RVR setup), but no where does it mention desginated sites for CB's and TCU's (within the body) ... ie ... service standard does not determine who carries this. Now to remarks: 15-18 15-38. SIGNIFICANT CLOUD TYPE [PLAIN LANGUAGE] At designated stations, the significant cloud types remark shall be coded in all reports as described below. (Cumulonimbus of any kind and towering cumulus are also identified in the body of the report in the sky condition group.) So right here they are saying that designated stations, a remark will also be added ... A and B level should have a CB or TCU (if observed) in the body ... but only A level would further discribe it ... location / movement, in remarks. Here are the cloud types ... as outlined in Service Standard A ... which reads in part: If observed, the following elements will be added to the observation; sector visibility, variable sky condition, cloud layers above 12,000 feet and cloud types, 15-53. CLOUD TYPES (8/CLCMCH) (NA LAWRS) At designated manual stations, this group shall be reported and coded in 3- and 6- hourly reports when clouds are observed Also check Appendex E ... page E-3. Synoptic Cloud Types ... 8/ClCmCh - labeled as manual, as are the next 3 remarks that many A level sites report ... SNINCR, 4 group and 933 group. In summary ... -- A & B level should report TCU and CB in the body, if observerd. -- A level should report in remarks, TCU, CB, ACSL & ACC, etc -- A level should report cloud code group To tell ya the truth ... I am beginning to hate this book ... lol ...lets get a clear written revision !!! | ||
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| weatheri |
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| Registered Member #3 Joined: Mon Jul 07 2008, 09:31AMPosts: 35 | coldlover, There is no 4 group at PHL because PHL is not a snow measuring site. This was agreed upon by NWS and FAA. Regards | ||
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| hlsto2 |
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| Registered Member #2 Joined: Sat Jul 05 2008, 05:36AMPosts: 324 | Here is my interpretation... NO station is required to enter the 8 group. As I stated previously...ONLY THREE A level sites are doing this...the other 66 are not. so..either 3 stations are right and 66 are wrong or 66 are right and 3 wrong. ONLY A level sites carry significanr cloud types...either in the body or remarks. The key phrase here being "at designated stations". And...the designated stations are listed in the service level standards. Only level A reports cloud types...which I interpret to mean significant cloud types. A new manual IS sorely needed. it should be nearly all ASOS with a chapter on AWOS and another on backup manual obs. I don't believe there are very many if any totally manual stations left. I don't count sites such as 4CR. | ||
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